{"id":2111,"date":"2018-02-11T10:04:14","date_gmt":"2018-02-11T15:04:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/?p=2111"},"modified":"2018-02-10T10:26:20","modified_gmt":"2018-02-10T15:26:20","slug":"myths-complaints-designated-pilot-examiners-discussed","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/?p=2111","title":{"rendered":"Myths and Complaints About Designated Pilot Examiners Discussed"},"content":{"rendered":"

As someone who has been acting as a DPE for a significant period of time and still currently provide CFI services to clients, I hear all kinds of assumptions and myths about DPEs.<\/span><\/p>\n

After recently encountering a few of these myths, I thought I\u2019d try to help explain the job that DPEs do and the services we provide to the aviation training community. There are many myths and misconceptions about why DPEs do some of the things they do, and I think it is important to help dispell them.<\/span><\/p>\n

While I don\u2019t claim to speak for all DPEs, I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if many examiners would agree with my observations on the following.<\/span><\/p>\n

Examiners Charge too Much, Need to Charge Less, or Should Provide Practical Tests for Free<\/b><\/p>\n

Yes, we actually get told that examiners should do this for free, should not charge any more than a flight instructor charges per hour, or that the FAA should have a capped national price level. <\/span><\/p>\n

Ok, \u201cfree\u201d is just a silly recommendation. As an examiner, I can come back and say, \u201cthen why don\u2019t flight training providers provide their aircraft for free?\u201d Their answer is that they are in business to make money. The same is true of examiners. We work hard to gain the skill and experience to become examiners, keep our qualifications current, and provide the service. Charging for that service is a business endeavor. If examiners couldn\u2019t expect reasonable compensation, why should they do the job?<\/span><\/p>\n

I personally wouldn\u2019t bother to go through all of the work and take on the liability that comes with being an examiner for free. <\/span><\/p>\n

Examiners Just Fail People to get Paid Again<\/b><\/p>\n

This is actually rather counter-intuitive, and certainly, counter productive for DPEs. Few examiners charge the same price for a retest as they do for an initial test. At the same time, DPEs are limited to only doing 2 processing events on the same day. So, if \u00a0DPE does 2 full initial tests, they get paid full price twice. If they do retests, they get paid a lower amount and actually make less money per day. An examiner makes the most potential money per day in their allotted 2 processing events if they are both successful initial testings. Retests actually cost the DPE potential revenue.<\/span><\/p>\n

Still unclear about this? Here is what the math might look like.<\/span><\/p>\n

If a DPE charges $500 for a practical test, and they can do two in a day, they can make $1000 that day.<\/span><\/p>\n

If that same DPE charges half price for a retest, $250, and if they had to do two retests in the same day, they would only make $500. If they did a full test and one retest, they would make $750. No matter what happens, retests typically make the examiner less money per day than if they could keep people passing and doing initial tests. It is a disincentive to fail people because we make less money for the same time slots.<\/span><\/p>\n

Some say a DPE shouldn\u2019t be able to charge for a retest. Think of it from the DPEs perspective. They showed up prepared to do their job and conduct the practical test. Whether it was due to being unprepared, or just botching a maneuver, the applicant was unsuccessful in passing. Would this be fair to the DPE to require them to work for free during the retest? The best way to make sure you don\u2019t have to to pay for a retest is to be prepared and pass the first time.<\/span><\/p>\n

DPEs Only Accept Cash because they Don\u2019t Have to Report it to the IRS<\/b><\/p>\n

Yeah, well, if it only worked that way. You know all that paperwork you do to apply for the test? The IACRA application or the 8710 form? Well, all of that is completely trackable and auditable. Any examiner who doesn\u2019t report the tests they conduct and the revenue that comes with them is certainly risking some very serious questions in any audit that matches these two things up.<\/span><\/p>\n

The reality is that many examiners do not accept other methods of payments because they have been burned.<\/span><\/p>\n

I, myself, and other examiners I know, have had students give us bad checks, cancel them after the test if they were unhappy they failed, and have even had people contest credit card fees (I accept processing of credit cards using a service) just as a way to avoid paying for the test or showing displeasure for a failure. This leaves the examiner out the time they took to conduct the test, trying to hound an applicant who may not even be from the local area, or giving up on the payment for their services. As a result, a few bad actors have caused some examiners to only accept cash. I personally still accept other means of payment, but I also haven\u2019t gotten burned as many times as some examiners in places where applicants are more transitory for the training and testing they are completing.<\/span><\/p>\n

DPEs Shouldn\u2019t Charge Anymore Per Hour than a CFI<\/b><\/p>\n

A DPE is a CFI who has gotten enough experience, training and put in the work to be qualified to a level beyond that of a basic CFI. As with most other industries, as additional qualifications and skills are added, one would expect that compensation for a service requiring those additional certifications would increase as well. It seems reasonable that this specially qualified and experienced group of CFIs who are also DPEs should be able to command a greater hourly rate than a standard CFI.<\/span><\/p>\n

DPEs Have the Easiest and Highest Paying Job in Aviation<\/b><\/p>\n

Oh how I wish. Actually, only a very small percentage of DPEs in the system ever give more than 200 practical tests in a year. Most do this as a part-time thing on the side. For those that do it full time, these pilots could frequently make more money per year as a professional pilot in corporate or airline environments. Most who chose to become a DPE do so because they like the training environment, have chosen to do it based on a lifestyle choice, or very seriously just like helping people get through their training.<\/span><\/p>\n

A side note, for most DPEs who do it anywhere near full time, they get no benefits that they might get working for a company as a pilot. They pay their own taxes including the federal matching that an employer normally pays, they have to pay for their own medical benefits, they get nothing that resembles disability insurance unless they purchase it themselves, and there is no such thing as a paid vacation. <\/span><\/p>\n

DPEs Won\u2019t Make More Time Available Because They Have Other Jobs<\/b><\/p>\n

This is many times very true, but it isn\u2019t because the DPE doesn\u2019t want to work and get tests done. Historically, there was FAA policy that indicated that a DPE was not allowed to make giving practical tests their primary vocation. It was intended to be experienced pilots acting on the side, sharing their experience from real-worldflying, who tested the next generation of pilots.<\/span><\/p>\n

This policy is no longer in effect, but in some areas the practical application of DPE administration by FAA offices has been to continue this practice. It is slowly changing, and there are still currency flying requirements that DPEs must meet every year to ensure they are still active and current as pilots, but it is becoming more acceptable for DPEs to give higher numbers of practical tests, bordering on the activity being acceptable as a full time occupation.<\/span><\/p>\n

Until this fully changes, many DPEs will have to serve multiple employment masters and regularly have other active aviation jobs that they do as well as doing practical tests.<\/span><\/p>\n

DPEs Need to Charge Less Because I Have to Travel to Them and Flying is Expensive<\/b><\/p>\n

We understand this, we really do, but the time it takes us to give a test and the price we charge can\u2019t be determined by what your cost of operating an aircraft is to get to the test.<\/span><\/p>\n

Many examiners will travel to the test for a fee that is less than the costs you may incur to fly to the examiner. But it also isn\u2019t fair to expect the examiner to charge less because of your flying expenses or to come to you without consideration for the cost they may incur getting to you. If there really aren\u2019t examiners near you, and there is enough demand for testing, a conversation with the local FAA office may encourage them to have a DPE designated closer. For more remote locations, this may not be possible, or logical from an FAA oversight requirement viewpoint. In some cases, the cost of getting to the place where the test can be administered is just part of the certification cost. As much as most of us DPEs would love to make flying a lot cheaper, it is just beyond our control. <\/span><\/p>\n

All Examiners do is Show Up, Test, and Go Home<\/b><\/p>\n

Actually there is a lot of time that goes into giving a practical test. We have to develop a plan for each test, do the paperwork that goes with it, and do all the other stuff that goes with keeping our DPE authorization current throughout the year. There is more that happens behind the scenes that is not visible during the administration of the actual practical test. All of this gets oversight by the FAA to make sure we are doing our jobs correctly. If we don\u2019t do it, we won\u2019t be able to continue to give tests. Sure, there is some redundancy and a little bit of what we might call economy of scale that allows an examiner to reuse materials to some degree on multiple tests, but we really do have to prepare for each individual test separately and that happens before we ever show up with the applicant.<\/span><\/p>\n

Type Rating Costs are Too High<\/b><\/p>\n

I certainly understand that type rating testing costs are higher than the typical FAA Private Pilot practical test. I also expect this. Type rating training costs much more than basic level training. There are far fewer examiners capable of and qualified to give type ratings. There is an upper limit on everything, but this is a free market economy. As a supply of those that can provide a service gets smaller, the price gets higher.<\/span><\/p>\n

DPEs Can\u2019t Do Enough Checkrides in a Day<\/b><\/p>\n

DPEs are currently limited to 2 practical test activities in a day (1 if it is an initial CFI test). This is a policy that was put in place over time as a result of examiners giving \u201ctoo many\u201d tests in a day. \u201cToo many\u201d in some of these cases meant \u201ctoo short\u201d, which meant that DPEs weren\u2019t giving fully compliant practical tests in accordance with PTS\/ACS standards. The reality is that practical tests take time to give properly. Most DPEs that I know who are giving good, compliant, but not excessive tests for things like instrument ratings or private pilot certification find that they take about 4 \u00bd – 5 hours to fully start and finish with the ground and flight portions of the test. Do two of these in a day, and it is a 10 hour day. That\u2019s enough. Plus, eventually you run out of daylight.<\/span><\/p>\n

There are some cases where examiners could, and sometimes do get permission when asked, do more than 2 practical test activities in a day. This may include, say, 3 partial retests as an example. But the FAA had to set a line somewhere, and without permission, the DPEs have a policy to follow that is based on experience the FAA and DPEs had over time in the testing system.<\/span><\/p>\n

A Checkride Should Be the Same Price in California as in Nebraska<\/b><\/p>\n

Different areas of the country have different costs of living. This is just a fact.Should a house in Southern California have to sell for the same price per square foot as one in Nebraska? Try telling that to the real estate people in California! Do I need to say more here?<\/span><\/p>\n

There Aren\u2019t Enough DPEs<\/b><\/p>\n

Maybe. It depends on where you are. And it may instead be a question of if there are \u201cthe right\u201d DPEs.<\/span><\/p>\n

Without going into lots of detail and spreadsheets, in some places, there actually may not be enough DPEs serving the need for testing.<\/span><\/p>\n

In high-density training environments, especially where training has expanded as the market for pilots has grown, there may actually not be enough examiner capacity.<\/span><\/p>\n

The FAA and some industry representatives are actively working on this problem and working to bring new examiners on where they are needed. But this does take some time. Part of the answer may also be to have examiners that are more active. Where examiners are only giving a small number of tests per year, the FAA may look to replace them, retire them, or supplement them with DPEs who are more available and able to provide a larger number of tests per year. Another potential solution is and has been to allow DPEs from other areas (who were historically geographically restricted) to travel to places where more tests are needed to be given. This may allow some temporary alleviation of testing backups.<\/span><\/p>\n

The long-run effort is to evaluate where training needs are dense and make sure available and enough examiners are staffed in close proximity to meet the needs.<\/span><\/p>\n

I Can\u2019t Find Any DPEs, the Only Way to Find Them is Word of Mouth<\/b><\/p>\n

Yes, we hear this a lot. A quick Google search can usually find a DPE, but there is also a public list of current, available, and active DPEs that the FAA makes available. <\/span><\/p>\n

You can find it at: https:\/\/www.faa.gov\/other_visit\/aviation_industry\/designees_delegations\/designee_types\/dpe\/<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n

A General Closing Thought<\/b><\/p>\n

I guess as a DPE one thing I would like people to remember is that while we are designated by the FAA to provide testing, these are services. We do this because it is worth us doing it for compensation. We may enjoy it also, and it’s always better when someone enjoys work they do, but it is still work. A little respect for our time and the effort we put forth to help people get testing completed is very much appreciated.<\/span><\/p>\n

When a DPE commits to give a test at a particular location and a particular time, they have committed to that as any commercial service provider does when setting an appointment. When an applicant shows up, unqualified, unprepared, or for any reason unable to go forward with the test, the DPEs has lost their opportunity to make a living in that slot of time. And they can\u2019t get it back. Time is valuable. While I personally don\u2019t charge for time slots when I send someone home who was missing paperwork or unqualified, I completely understand why some examiners charge partial or full price to an applicant even when a test isn\u2019t given. I suggest applicants ask about the examiner\u2019s policy on this at the time of scheduling.<\/span><\/p>\n

We are likely juggling many applicants, trying the best we can to help people get scheduled, but any one applicant isn\u2019t the only person we are working with. I know that every test is important to the person who is trying to get it done, but you aren\u2019t the only one doing it. We will do our best to get you scheduled, work around weather, work with aircraft or scheduling challenges, and try to balance multiple commitments. But when it comes down to it, we are human too, we have limits, and a little communication with us will go a long way.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

As someone who has been acting as a DPE for a significant period of time and still currently provide CFI services to clients, I hear all kinds of assumptions and myths about DPEs. After recently encountering a few of these … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2111","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-aviation"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2111","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2111"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2111\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2123,"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2111\/revisions\/2123"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2111"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2111"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonblair.net\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2111"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}